Talk:Heroin/Archive 5

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Video Talk:Heroin/Archive 5

"Citation needed"

This article is looking superb up to "... often being preferred over morphine due to its lower side-effect profile." I don't know how to put "citation needed" onto the text itself, but this claim really needs evidence from a good source! --Ronja R (talk) 14:35, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

I added the request for citation. -- Ed (Edgar181) 14:39, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11476257 Can we use this citation?Ensurdagen (talk) 21:40, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Maps Talk:Heroin/Archive 5

"Illicit heroin is usually in freebase form"

Intro states "Illicit heroin is usually in freebase form". This may be the case in the UK or US, but it is certainly not the case in Australia and other regions. Heroin in it's freebase from is seldom, if ever, seen in Australia, the salt form is ubiquitous. The salt form has the advantage that it is far more soluble than the base form & does not require heating or the addition of an acidifier in order for it to disolve. One of the disadvantages of the salt form however is that it has a much greater boiling point & can not be smoked. 156.22.3.1 (talk) 23:35, 19 May 2013 (UTC) Swampy.

I agree, that statement is definitely incorrect. Illicit heroin in the US is almost universally a salt. Illicit heroin in the UK at the moment is predominantly freebase, I believe. This is why needle exchanges in the UK give out packets of citric acid. However, across the whole globe I believe heroin salts are more common. The source cited for this statement was not very reliable, and the source does not claim to have any actual evidence, it is just stating "facts".

Fluoborate (talk) 05:39, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

src: www.post-gazette.com

Heroin In Popular Culture

I Have information that can be added to the page. However, the page is blocked, along with the fact that I am new. I have read about requesting an edit, but I am still a little confused. If anyone could help me out, that would be great. A100066780

What's the info, what's the reference, what section does it belong, do you have a link to it on the web? If you wrote and referenced everything and posted it here we can decide if it fits Wikipedia guidelines, etc. Raquel Baranow (talk) 01:03, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

src: bergandgroup.com

Mexico & Columbia as major source of Heroin in US

Lead section of article says, "production in Mexico has risen six times from 2007 to 2011, changing that percentage and placing Mexico as the second largest opium producer in the world." and cites a short CNN article but in the body of this article the Golden Triangle is said to be second largest producer, even the map in the article by the CIA shows more Heroin coming from overseas (Afghanistan~Europe and Golden Triangle) to USA. Raquel Baranow (talk) 03:14, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

I know this is the wrong place to put this, but 100,000 is only an overdose estimate, it does not include the sale of and the wars fought over. it also does not include accurate Chinese numbers.hands down. it is way too low. be honest with us. thanx. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.170.136.74 (talk) 10:00, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

You'll need to provide sources for the info you suggest changing. And it is likely that we should only include the overdose info here, as the rest doesn't really seem to be in scope. FInally, I removed your link to your facebook page; it's not a good idea for privacy reasons, and could arguably seen as spamming. If you want to maintain a stable identity on WP, you should register an account, which is fast and requires no information other than a username and an optional email address. Qwyrxian (talk) 10:28, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

src: bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com

long term effects of heroin use

The image shows what is stated to be the long term effects of heroin use. I think it is important to mention that all of the effects listed in this image with the exception of addiction, dependence, and tolerance, are not in fact the effects of heroin use, but rather the effects of impurities in the street versions of diacetylmorphine, improper needle use, dirty needle use, and unsanitary conditions during intravenous administration.

There are, to be clear, very few negative physical effects of long term opiate use, when speaking purely of the drug itself, again with the exception of crippling addiction and dependence. But if we are speaking about the effects on the body itself, in comparison to a drug like alcohol which does extensive damage to the entire body systematically, having an impact on almost every organ, opiates in their pure form, when administer in clean, sterile environments, and with clean, sharp and correctly used syringes do not do much damage to the body.

I am not advocating the use of such drugs, but I think the case can be made that if handled correctly and with the proper harm reduction programs, almost all the negative effects listed in this graphic could be avoided. It might be wise to mention Sweden's prescription heroin program, where pure, pharmaceutical grade heroin is given to addicts selected for the program, and they are given a clean, safe, and sterile environment in which to administer the drug, while under the watchful eye of health professional with access to an opiate antidote such as Narcan, to reverse an overdose if needed. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by Grassyknoll247 (talk o contribs) 01:21, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

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Price

Prices fluctuate considerably in illegal dealings. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by Montananevadagirl (talk o contribs) 16:00, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

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Medicinal Uses

In England heroin--diacetylmorphine--is used as an agonist maintenance therapy drug for opiate addiction--just like methadone, as an alternative to it. In most countries it is illegal, but it does have medicinal use as as addiction treatment agent--ie agonist maintenance therapy. Why is this not listed as a 4th medicinal use in the bar up top? I'm not sure if I'm putting this comment in the correct place, and I can find a source citing this indication in England later in the day. -ona k. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.27.145 (talk) 21:19, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

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Popular culture > Songs

"Heroin girl" by Everclear, from the album "Sparkle and fade" (1995) -- Preceding unsigned comment added by Lustmord1 (talk o contribs) 19:28, 7 November 2013 (UTC) "Captain Jack" by Billy Joel should definitely make this list ". . but Captain Jack will get you high tonight, and take you to your special island! Captain Jack could make you die tonight. Just a little push, and you'll be smilin'!" Joel himself says he thought of the song while looking out the window of his then-apartment in Oyster Bay and seeing kids going into the projects across the street to score heroin from the local drug dealer called "Captain Jack". Even the melodic structure of the song, transitioning from monotonous F major to Bb major chords underneath increasingly depressing lyrics, and then to the majestic chorus, mimics the progression of a heroin episode. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by MST3KLives (talk o contribs) 14:05, 4 February 2014 (UTC) "Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire" by Joni Mitchell, from the album "For the Roses". From "...a menacing and jazzy portrait of a heroin addict..." 75.117.80.164 (talk) 17:21, 4 March 2014 (UTC)James E. Backus 12:21 EST, 4 March 2014.

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Semi-protected edit request on 6 April 2014

Please change the structure image of heroin because it is incorrect. It should have two acetyl groups instead of carboxylic groups; see correct structure here: http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.4575379.html

184.88.229.67 (talk) 01:31, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Not done for now: If you want the image changed you will need to request a new version of the file be uploaded at WP:FFU. Once that is done, it should automatically update the image on the page once you have cleared your cache. -- {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t o e o c)} 11:41, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 18 April 2014

Please change Reference #52 Adult Health Advisor 2005.4: Narcotic Drug Withdrawal[dead link] to the following resource: http://www.discoveryplace.info/narcotic-drug-withdrawal This resource was recreated from the University of Michigan as the article is no longer available (dead link) Bdinker (talk) 08:52, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

 Done ? Philg88 ? ^?talk 09:05, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

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Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/illegal-drugs-canada-s-growing-international-market-1.798638. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Diannaa (talk) 01:26, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

src: cdn.deseretnews.com

sp boad of health

needs correctionGinAndChronically (talk) 03:25, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

src: www.post-gazette.com

Harm Reduction

There are no references in this section. This is advice from one heroin addict to others or is this verifiable? <tommy> (talk)

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Atomic formula

(5?,6?)-7,8-didehydro- 4,5-epoxy- 17-methylmorphinan- 3,6-diol diacetate Any salt or ester having two acetate groups,

ester needs to be added comparison to diacetyl atomic molecular structure C4H6O2

i noticed way too many complicated formulas on wikipedia are either partial true or not full or way too much info, too many editors want to show off how smart they r, but that doesnt help!

prefix di, from greek means double, noticed its already here then another word for it is next to it, who needs such ambiguity?lol!

src: lradac.org

Rename to diacetylmorphine?

"Heroin" is clearly the most widespread name for this substance. However, it is still a "nickname" that came out of the drug scene, an advertising term in a manner of speaking: "It makes you feel like a hero."

Imho Wikipedia should refer to the substance by its proper chemical name, diacetylmorphine, including the article title. I know that this would be a departure from the Manual of Style, but for a good reason. --89.0.210.238 (talk) 17:06, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps you have not read the article - "Heroin" is more than just an advertising term "in a manner of speaking", it is what it was originally marketed as by Bayer. Compare Aspirin. GreenReaper (talk) 13:40, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

In the UK, the term "heroin" describes the form of the drug used recreationally/illegally. The term is not used by healthcare professionals to describe the legal form of the drug administered for medical indications. I believe that this terminology is also used elsewhere in the world. The scope of this article includes both the medical drug and the recreational drug. Therefore it should use the generic name "diamorphine".

I have read the "Etymology" section. Regardless of its original definition, that term is no longer the same as the modern definition. Your comparison with aspirin is misleading. "Aspirin" is the default name used by healthcare professionals. There is no alternative street name that describes a subclass of the drug's use. Axl ¤ [Talk] 22:14, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

I was mostly correcting the original commenter's assertion about the name's origin. Nevertheless, articles titles should be recognizable by the majority of English speakers. I live in the UK, too, and I have no idea what dia[cetyl]morphine is off the top of my head, but I sure know what heroin is. Medical professionals such as yourself are also likely to know. If this were a medical reference, you might have an excellent case for using the official name, but outside of that context . . . "heroin" has 5 million hits on Google and a hit by the Velvet Underground, while other names each have less than 200,000 hits each. The ratio of Wikipedia article mentions is 8,520 to 61. Our drug naming conventions state that INN should be used except where the (medical) pharmaceutical use of a certain compound is secondary, and I think that combined with "recognizable names" and other guidelines brings us back to "heroin". Either that, or we split the article into medical and recreational uses. I don't think that's a good idea, but it's an option. GreenReaper (talk) 11:25, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

This issue has also arisen many times before. The dominant usage of the common name has been preferred over any "official" generic name (of which there are many). GreenReaper (talk) 12:03, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

The claim that heroin is the common name is grossly misleading. Heroin is not the common name for the legal prescription of the drug for medical indications. I have invited WikiProjects Medicine & Pharmacology to comment here. Axl ¤ [Talk] 13:26, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

• This article gets around 3000 page views per day, but the "diacetylmorphine" redirect only gets around 30 page views per day. So probably only around 1% of the visitors to this page are looking for "diacetylmorphine" -- I sure the vast majority are looking for "heroin". As an encyclopedia, our goal should be to serve the needs of our readers. Looie496 (talk) 13:56, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
• I'd go with heroin - it's the name for all intents and purposes. I very rarely see "diacetylmorphine" these days..Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:11, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose move per WP:COMMONNAME. While WP:PHARMMOS advises to use the nonproprietary name of legal drugs, world-wide the illegal use of this drug far exceeds the the legal use. Hence what we should use is the most common street name, heroin. Boghog (talk) 14:16, 10 September 2014 (UTC) It is also indexed under heroin with directs from diacetylmorphine in many databases (see for example PubChem, DrugBank, etc.) Boghog (talk) 14:22, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose Evidence has not been presented that another name for this substance is more commonly used. A lot of evidence exists that the current name is commonly used. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:23, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. This is a good case of WP:COMMONNAME. I would not be completely opposed to a discussion about forking the article into two, one about illegal heroin and one about pharmaceutically used diamorphine. There would be some overlap, but on the whole we are talking about two rather different uses of the same molecule. JFW | T@lk 20:03, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

I think this is the best long-term option. Now who volunteers to undertake it? ;) Otherwise I will attempt to after exams. ----Cyclonenim | Chat  14:44, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Also, I don't see much need to split the page. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:49, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

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Songs About Heroin

This bullet should be added to the section "Songs"

• "The Heroin Diaries Soundtrack" by Sixx:A.M., an album recorded exclusively about heroin. ~ashquarter8~ (talk) 22:10, 28 September 2014 (UTC)ashquarter8

Done Cannolis (talk) 22:33, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

src: cdn.theatlantic.com

Nothing about brown heroin

As a chemical salt, which is water-soluble (no acid or heat is needed), heroin is white. But it's well-known (in large parts of Europe atleast) that addicts mainly use brown "heroin". It has a different formula (is no salt and hence not soluble in pure water, typically citric or ascorbic acid [=vitamine C] must be added, and then the brown "heroin" becomes soluble. Previosly (until the 1980's, I guess) Swedish Customs used four categories of morphine.

• I morpine base
• II morphine (water soluble)
• III brown heroin
• IV heroin (salt, water soluble)

If a smuggeler was cought, the centance was then based on quantity, quality and category. I think the article could be improved by adding a chapter of brown herion. Boeing720 (talk) 03:27, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

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Newer Afghanistan Information

UN reports Afghanistan's 2012 market share for heroin was 93 per cent. Also propose adding regulatory information (salts, ACSCN, quota, conversion ratios of salts, BtMG list number, details on UK and Schengen Zone regulation &c) -- Preceding unsigned comment added by NCCL2310 (talk o contribs) 04:54, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

New York Times editorial from 26 Oct 2014 says, "In 2012, Afghanistan produced 95 percent of the world's opium." If this is true, some of the opium must be getting into the USA (Americans must consume more than 5%.) Raquel Baranow (talk) 17:19, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Ottawa Citizen, 14 November 2014 says, "More than 90 per cent of the heroin seized in Canada whose origin was known came from Afghanistan." Hard to believe the DEA doesn't know how much Afghan heroin is getting into USA. Raquel Baranow (talk) 00:18, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

src: d194ip2226q57d.cloudfront.net

Adverse effects

The first paragraph should be modified to remove the section which cites cite note 40.

• "this variation has led to people suffering from overdoses as a result of the heroin missing a stage on its journey from port to end user, as each set of hands that the drug passes through adds further adulterants, the strength of the drug reduces, with the effect that if steps are missed, the purity of the drug reaching the end user is higher than they are used to and because they are unable to tolerate the increase, an overdose ensues.[40]"

The reference explains how drug deaths increased after opium production fell. The reduction in opium led to heroin laced with more materials, not more pure heroin: meaning the deaths were caused by increased impurity, not heroin overdose from increased purity. This is directly contrary to text which cites this reference.

The whole text quoted should be removed unless a relevant source can be found.

-- Preceding unsigned comment added by Dsmiller95 (talk o contribs) 22:32, 18 November 2014?

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Cite note 40 seems to be a relevant source to me. Establish a consensus to remove this properly sourced content before reactivating this request. -- {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e o t o c)} 02:33, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Inactive prodrugdrug

I have removed "Heroin itself is an inactive drug, but when inserted into the body, it converts into morphine". This is 100% incorrect, it is twice as potent as morphine, that is why it was invented and marketed. The confusion is the oral route where a first pass through the liver removes the acetyl groups and it is converted to morphine. That is why it is marketed as an injectable, it reaches the brain before passing though the liver. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 17:31, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Half life

Whatever the source says, how on earth can the half life be 2-3 ? And what does it refer to ? Diamorphine or one of its metabolites? -- Preceding unsigned comment added by Felix Tritschler (talk o contribs) 20:15, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

The 2-3 minute data is referring to heroin (diamorphine). It is rapidly metabolized to acetylmorphine and morphine which have potent biological effects. -- Ed (Edgar181) 22:43, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2015

There is still no citation on how and in what capacity Pakistan is involved in the opium trade. 115.186.159.81 (talk) 07:12, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

 Done  Philg88 ^?talk 15:03, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Incorrect use of term "Insufflation"

The term insufflation is being used incorrectly in this article as a synonym for snorting. Please change all instances of insufflation to "snorting". An alternative reasonable synonym for snorting is sniffing.

Insufflation means, "The action of blowing or breathing on or into.", "Blowing or breathing upon a person or thing to symbolize the influence of the Holy Spirit and the expulsion of evil spirits; a rite of exorcism used in the Roman, Greek, and some other churches.", "The blowing or breathing (of something) in; in Med. the blowing of air, etc. into the lungs, or of gas, vapour, or powder into or on some part of the body.", or "The condition of being inflated or distended with air."

Firstly, the primary meaning of the word, based on etymology refers to blowing out not in. It is a big stretch to use insufflation as a synonym for inhalation. Secondly, insufflation is not at all specific to the nose. And lastly, if we were to take it as a synonym for inhalation, there is already a category for smoking, which would cover this. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.84.199.20 (talk) 03:23, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

...Insufflation (medicine). Seppi333 (Insert 2¢ | Maintained) 03:27, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

No mention of addiction

I think there should be a little more information in the lead of the article about the spike in heroin use (in general and as a result of the change in formula and regulation of pain medicine) and also more information on the physical dependence of it. Heroin is mostly associated with illegal use for pleasure and dependence, there really should be a little more about that in the lead. There should be some kind of abuse statistics in there as well. I will cook something up (no pun intended) if anyone else thinks it's a good idea.Zdawg1029 (talk) 15:50, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Here are at least 3 articles linking pain killer decline to heroin use.Zdawg1029 (talk) 15:56, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/06/12/study-heroin-abuse-increase-may-be-due-to-prescription-painkiller-crackdown

http://www.psmag.com/health-and-behavior/prescription-painkiller-abuse-linked-heroin-90265

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/news/investigations/2014/05/17/painkiller-law-sends-addicts-heroin-cops/9133813/

Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2015

Please change this sentence: It is now a Schedule I substance, which makes it illegal for non-medical use in signatory nations of the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs treaty, including the United States.

This should be changed to say this: It is now a Schedule I substance, which makes it illegal to use and states that there are NO medical usages in signatory nations of the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs Treaty, including the United States.

The current statement makes it apparent that heroin can be used for medical purposes within the US which is false. This should be changed to prevent misleading uninformed men and women.

AwsomeNiko25 (talk) 18:30, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Your statements here are inconsistent with the description of Schedule I in our article on the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs. If you believe that article is in error, could you please provide a good reference? Looie496 (talk) 19:09, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. -- {{U|Technical 13}} (e o t o c) 11:20, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Songs

Needle and Spoon - by Savoy Brown off the Raw Sienna album

Peanutsly (talk) 04:06, 27 April 2015 (UTC)Peanutsly

Semi-protected edit request on 29 April 2015

Add "happiness is a warm gun - beatles" under songs in popular culture as the warm gun is a rig full of heroin.... Or so my friend has said the inspiration was. L4b0rd0m4n (talk) 23:22, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Not done Please provide a reliable source- "my friend said so" is not a reliable source. Joseph2302 (talk) 23:27, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 May 2015

It was also a problem with many rock musicians, particularly from the late 1960s through the 1990s. Pete Doherty is also a self-confessed user of heroin. Nirvana frontman Kurt Cobain's heroin addiction was well documented. Led Zeppelin Guitarist Jimmy Page begun using Heroin from 1975 until 1983. Pantera frontman, Phil Anselmo, turned to heroin while touring during the 1990s to cope with his back pain.

92.23.123.219 (talk) 15:18, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. --I am k6ka ^{Talk to me!} _{See what I have done} 16:53, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Production in yeast

User:Jytdog deleted my edit saying that work was underway to produce morphine, the precursor to heroin in yeast. Since work has already been published on the three components on the process, then clearly that work is underway. I do not understand why my edit was deleted. Thue (talk) 14:06, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

So much hype around this! Look this is all very exciting basic science but this may never be commercial. See discussion here [[1]]; I took the language we worked out in that article and added it here under a new Research section. Jytdog (talk) 14:10, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Geographical bias

For reasons unknown, the article at this time has a strong United Kingdom focus in its citations of sources and stats. While UK info isn't wrong per se, this ignores significant heroin issues in other nations and cultures, including the United States, many parts of Europe, Latin America and Asia. Data on the percentage purity in some of the other major countries for heroin usage would be especially of interest, possibly with a chart comparing from place to place. This is Wikipedia, not Britanica. Ftjrwrites (talk) 20:13, 21 July 2015 (UTC) -agreed. in particular the "medical uses" section needs attention from an expert on the global use of diacetylmorphine in medicine.205.185.223.110 (talk) 02:16, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

We're all volunteers here and there are approximately a bajillion articles to work on. For the most part if you want something done you'll have to do it yourself. I encourage you to make an account and WP:FIXTHEPROBLEM with some reliable medical sources. Sizeofint (talk) 05:00, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 October 2015

Please update reference 14, which currently reads " "NICE Clinical Guideline 13: Caesarian section" (PDF). p. 20. Retrieved 20 July 2012." The link is now out of date. The guidance was renewed in 2011 and the new document is here: The new reference should read: "National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (2011) Caesarean section.NICE Guideline (CG132)" as per NICE referencing guidelines here:

Thank you. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by LionelDamard (talk o contribs) 23:22, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Done -- ferret (talk) 18:52, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 November 2015

The original sentence of this article reads as such:

Heroin (diacetylmorphine or morphine diacetate, also known as diamorphine (BAN, INN[5])) and commonly known by the street names of H, smack, junk, horse, and brown, among others.

The corrected sentence should read as such:

Heroin (diacetylmorphine or morphine diacetate, also known as diamorphine (BAN, INN[5])) and commonly known by the street names of dope, H, smack, junk, horse, and brown among others; With "Dope" being the most frequently used reference term in the United States.

Description, reference, and backup of my submission:

The most common street name/slang for the drug Heroin is "dope." I am a RECOVERED Heroin addict and have been clean for years. My first hand experience is the source of this information. I give my expressed and authentic permission to use this information; therefore, any references to this "street slang" addition are absolutely not necessary, or may be listed with me as the reference of this information.

(I added the UNITED STATES due to the fact that these articles are read world-wide, and may not be the same fact overseas. Beacause of this the size of the audience, The entry "UNITED STATES" is mandatory and necessary.

Kona702 (talk) 19:47, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Done Sizeofint (talk) 23:12, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I don't think enough space to localize all the slang terms in the lead. Sizeofint (talk) 23:15, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Just use the approach used in psilocybin and amphetamine if there's too many notable names to list in the body. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 23:16, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Good idea Sizeofint (talk) 23:19, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 January 2016

The word 'euphoric' in the first sentence of the page links to a disambiguation page. 193.35.234.61 (talk) 12:13, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Fixed. Thanks for pointing it out. Deli nk (talk) 12:44, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

English please!

I know that Fancy words can help sum up the article better, but this is just ridiculous!!! Not everyone is a walking dictionary and has 15 PhDs in drugs! At least put in brackets what the words mean! Also, I think that you are going just a tad over the top on fancy words and I know that there are links, but that many?!?! All I wanted was a BAISIC explanation of what heroin is! I had to work hard to get a simple definition of cocaine but this is just ridiculous! -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.145.243.36 (talk) 16:46, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Oddly enough, chemistry is challenging. Go figure. Biochemistry is challenging too. Is there something specific that you want explained, as it is impossible for us to know what you consider overly technical jargon and what you find simple enough. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 18:07, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

To me the lede looks pretty simple. There are a few chemistry terms but I think the main points are understandable. What changes do you want made?Sizeofint (talk) 20:00, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 February 2016

heroin is a OxyContin drug

69.123.154.24 (talk) 23:04, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Cannolis (talk) 23:43, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Citations in the "Overdose" section

Citation 53 is out of date.

Citation 54 does not support the sentence it is attached to. In fact, that article suggests that deaths reported as heroin "overdoses" are not in fact overdoses.

I believe this following sentences need citations:

"Death usually occurs due to lack of oxygen resulting from the lack of breathing caused by the opioid."

"It should also be noted that since heroin can cause nausea and vomiting, a significant number of deaths attributed to heroin overdose are caused by aspiration of vomit by an unconscious person."

Tobyd05 (talk) 04:13, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Question about the article title

Should this article really be called "heroin"? I mean, it's still a legitimate medical drug in many countries, and almost all other Wikipedia articles on drugs use the proper, generic name for a drug rather than a trademarked name. I realise "heroin" is probably no longer an active trademark, but that merely relegates it to more of a street name for the drug, which again seems inappropriate as a title. Xmoogle (talk) 13:05, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME comes into play here. Page view statistics show that less than 1% of visits to this article come from readers who are looking for the term "diamorphine". Looie496 (talk) 13:22, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

->Talk:Heroin/Archive 5#Rename to diacetylmorphine? Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 13:29, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

As the common name is also what is typically used in the medical world am happy to stick with heroin. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 13:32, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Nice to get a reply from a real doctor :) I do have a question though, is that also what's used in the medical world when the drug is prescribed (as opposed to when dealing with drug addictions)? Xmoogle (talk) 13:35, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Sure, but isn't that what we have redirects for? I mean if I were to guess, I'd guess that the vast majority of people looking for diazepam instead search for "Valium" (and similar with paracetamol/acetaminophen vs Panadol/Tylenol), but those articles use the proper generic drug name as the article title and have redirects for the more commonly known brand names. Xmoogle (talk) 13:33, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Very rarely prescribed in my part of the world. I have never seen a person prescribed it. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 13:38, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Ah, see, this is part of what I'm getting at :) In my country (the UK), I believe it's about as commonly used as morphine, in the same sort of situations where morphine would typically be used (like post-operative or serious injury pain relief). And I highly doubt the doctors here refer to it as "heroin" when they're prescribing/administering it. Xmoogle (talk) 13:53, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

The article is rather strange as it is. We title it "Heroin" but mostly call the substance "Diamorphine" (diacetylmorphine morphine until a few months ago; I renamed most instances to the INN). It seems like with some drug articles we are arbitrarily choosing whether to follow WP:COMMONNAME or use the non-proprietary name. For example, I would imagine most readers of Desomorphine are searching for "Krokodil". Some consistency would be preferable. Sizeofint (talk) 07:47, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

Exactly. And personally I'd lean towards the ideal consistent standard being - use the proper drug name for the article title, and have any common names be redirects to the proper name. This sort of thing really bugs me, as it makes Wikipedia look rather unprofessional in my opinion - the inconsistency only slightly more than the use of slang/trademarked names for drugs. Xmoogle (talk) 02:35, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Agree with Xmoogle. This title is inconsistent with other drug titles that prioritize more technical names over casual (diazepam for Valium, desomorphine for Krokodil, and others, methaqualone for Quaalude, MDMA for Ecstasy, etc). WP:MOSAT is important to consider as well as WP:COMMONNAME. In countries like the UK where it is in clinical use, diamorphine is rarely (or never) described as heroin. Mangofast (talk) 12:43, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Sure otherstuffexists (simplest reply: then change that other situation, not this one - solved. Actually, this reply simply nullifies that argument, because the opposite is just as correct). We are not "unprofessional" this way, we are not writing for the doctor. WP:COMMONNAME is clear enough. -DePiep (talk) 12:58, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

I side with Xmoogle on this topic. The anchor article should be diamorphine not heroin. Searches for heroin should redirect to diamorphine. As for the position that WP:COMMONNAME is a defense for using heroin instead of diamorphine that is usually the case for human names and sometimes places. Very rarely used as defense for psychoactive drugs. You will notices that more than 95% of the searches for Zamboni machine land the user at Ice resurfacer. Wikipedia is not a slave to public opinion or gross misuse of trade names instead of their objectively correct generic names. This article should be named diamorphine and all heroin searches should redirect to diamorphine. Our job is to educate the public in an objective manner, not wantonly continue to engage in commercially motivated use of brand names. I think a vote would be appropriate for this debate. Boilingorangejuice (talk) 08:04, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

This article is very skewed, and almost presents a street-perspective rather than medicinal.

"Heroin" is also a dealers streetname, and not the real name. Diamorphine seems to be the real name. It should rather talk about its medicinal use, as its main area of relevance, and then also discuss its abuse, and "recreational drug" is a rather modest term. It is a big problem, and its cheaper derivatives even more so.

Addition to popular culture

Needle of Death, by Bert Jansch, would seem to be an appropriate addition to the songs listed under the Popular Culture heading, especially as this song predates most others listed. Everybody got to be somewhere! (talk) 15:04, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

In the UK

Isn't regular morphine the go-to for severe pain in almost all situations? The current article makes it seem as if diamorphine/heroin is given out like candy in the UK, which it is not. --Chairman Peng Xi (talk) 12:15, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Older estimate

Have reverted this edit[2] because it replaced an estimate for 2015 with an older estimate based on a 2012 source. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:49, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Ref

Were does it say "heroin use has risen dramatically in the past ten years" in this reference[3]? Also do not see were 33 million comes from on page xii?[4] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:03, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

I think it is on page xiv. At the bottom the opioid column. Sizeofint (talk) 05:44, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Why do we have such an emphasis on opioids in general in the lead? It seems more appropriate for the opioid article. I imagine there are statistics available for just heroin somewhere. Sizeofint (talk) 07:52, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

I have read the entire page of xiv[5]. Can you quote the 33 million supporting text User:Sizeofint? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 11:32, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

@Doc James: In the column "Opioids (opiates and prescription opioids)" there is a sub-column "Best estimate". The entry of the bottom row of that column is 33,120 thousand = 33.120 million. Sizeofint (talk) 20:12, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Ah thanks. So either page x or page 1. And they use the same page numbering in a couple places in the book which confused me.

But this article is about heroin so why include both opioids and opiates when the reference says "UNODC estimates indicate that the global number of opiate users (i.e., users of opium, morphine and heroin) has changed little in recent years and that opiates continued to affect some 17 million people in 2014" on page "xii"

I am trying to use the more specific opiate number so we do not over emphasise opioids as you mention.

Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:55, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Change in rates

Have added "The total number of opiate users has increased from 1998 to 2007 after which it has remained more or less stable." based on page 32 of this[6], specifically the graph. But if you look at the error bars the changes are not significant. Plus above it says "has changed little in recent years". People's thoughts? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:12, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Yeah that sounds good good Doctor Hunenmensch (talk) 16:06, 6 December 2016 (UTC) User:Hunemensch

Opiate or opioid?

Our opiate page seems to identify heroin as an semi-synthetic opioid rather than an opiate. On this page we call it an opiate. We should probably be consistent so how should we classify heroin? Sizeofint (talk) 22:23, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Much of the world uses the two terms interchangeably. When the two are differentiated from what I remember opiate is often often a subclass of opioid. At least this is my interpretation of this UN document[7] among others. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:37, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Yes, and that is how our opioid article defines them. I think the issue with heroin it that is that it is closely derived from substances found in opium but isn't naturally found in opium. If opiates are substances from the opium poppy then whether or no heroin is an opiate depends on how much additional processing one is willing to accept. The UNODC does classify it as an opiate. If we're going to follow their terminology we should probably make some changes at opiate so it doesn't look like we're contradicting ourselves. Sizeofint (talk) 23:43, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

@Box73: Thoughts? I remember you disentangling this issue over at opioid. Sizeofint (talk) 23:22, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Opioid is never wrong but medical sources split on semi-synthetics being classified as opiates.[8][9] UNODC considers heroin an opiate "in the strictly correct definition" while NIDA doesn't.[10][11] Traditionally it has been called an opiate. Maybe, "an opioid, often classified/called/considered an opiate"? (<-Take your pick.) My beef was the opi- terms previously being considered mutually exclusive: whether heroin is an opiate, it is an opioid.

Re the opiate article's definition, the semi-synthetic ambiguity recurs and should probably be mentioned or discussed in the article rather than simply decided on. -- ?ox73 (?alk) 20:37, 19 December 2016 (UTC) edit ?ox73 (?alk) 20:49, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

edit request: history/name

Reccomend the first paragraph in the subsection Name under History be removed, as it is redundant on the prior section and less detailed. The remaining paragraph (approved name, etc) should probably be relocated to somewhere near the start of the article. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:589:102:B920:2181:E9F2:2003:437C (talk) 23:45, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes, that first paragraph can be integrated into the larger history section above if there is anything worth keeping. We had previously placed the second paragraph in a note in the lead. This could be done again if there is consensus for it. Sizeofint (talk) 20:18, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Epidemiological source

Just heard about this study. Could be useful here. http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abstract/2612444 Sizeofint (talk) 17:17, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

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Drug Class

The drug class of heroin is Narcotic, not opiate. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by Zach.green1120 (talk o contribs) 21:07, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

The drug class for heroin is not opiate, and needs to be changed to narcotic. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by Zach.green1120 (talk o contribs) 21:10, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

@Zach.green1120: Not done: The class appears to be correct, according to Wikipedia standards. Heroin is an opiate, which is the scientific/academic/medical class of the drug. Narcotic is a generic term which covers many classes of drug. As Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, it uses the more formal or specific classification. Murph9000 (talk) 23:40, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 May 2017

Tangential - but i just finished editing the morphine page which whoever is responsible for quasi-curation should be ashamed of themselves. The first paragraph absolutely incorrectly attributes morphine as the base chemical for the creation of oxycodone (that would be thebaine -- another alkaloid found in the poppy pod, but certainly not morphine). With egregious errors such as this I felt it only right to try to correct inaccuracies and omissions on a page so closely linked to morphine i.e. diacetyl morphine.

So this is the first statement I take issue with:

"Treatment of heroin addiction often includes behavioral therapy and medications. Medications used may include methadone or naltrexone."

First this omits the most popular current treatment option which is Suboxone (buprenorphine).

  Second by listing methadone ( a potent mu-agonist) next to naltrexone (a mu-antagonist) this conflates the two medications and the purpose of each for dealing with heroin addiction. In short it needs a serious dose of disambiguation.   

Third, as has been demonstrated successfully in Switzerland using Heroin replacement therapy in a clinical setting it has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt the most successful avenue in dealing with heroin addiction and all of its related fallout. Strictly speaking in a harm reduction sense - there has not been a single fatality of heroin administered in these clinics. Whereas methadone is the first or second likeliest cause of death due to prescription opioid overdose. Moreover, since the needles are always clean there has been no incidence of transmission of blood borne diseases - primarily.y hep-c and HIV.

I would hope you would give credence to the most effective &efficacious forms of harm reduction: specifically Suboxone, and diceatyl morphine administered in a clinical setting (although only legal in Switzerland at this time, British Colombia is beginning to institute a similar program and given its overwhelming efficacy when dealing with heroin addiction I believe you would be remiss not to highlight these important success stories. . Finslly I ask that you remove naltrexone from the list of medications used to curb heroin abuse, as it and its cousin naloxone are primarily used to revive patients from opioid overdoses. Snowsnow13 (talk) 22:28, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Do you have a ref for "the most popular current treatment option which is Suboxone". Certainly not true in my area of the world and likely not globally.

With respect to morphine it was supported here[12]

We are based on high quality sources.

This source says "Another treatment is naltrexone, which blocks opioid receptors and prevents opioid drugs from having an effect. "[13] Naltrexone is NOT primarily used in acute overdose. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:52, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --MRD2014 ? contribs 01:10, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Heroin is only addictive to a minority of users??

The second paragraph at the top of this article currently asserts that "about a quarter of those who use heroin become physically dependent" -- something that does not sound right to me (only 25% of heroin users become addicted? Surely that would be headline news?). I would think that sentence calls for a 'citation needed' tag at the very least. I also note that the assertion does not seem to be repeated anywhere in the body of the article. Thanks for your attention, Wikipedians with editing access to the page! (I tried logging in but got a weird error, not sure what that's about.) 2601:19A:4003:50:708B:26A:171F:F407 (talk) 02:56, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

Fixed/deleted that clause in this edit. It's worth pointing out that physical dependence ? addiction though. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 03:02, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

Opiate?

Heroin isn't an opiate. It isn't found naturally in the opium poppy. It is best to describe it as an opi*oid*. DOA FANSI (talk) 14:32, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

There isn't really a universally agreed upon definition of opiate and opioid. This was discussed a few months back at Talk:Heroin/Archive_5#Opiate or opioid?. With better sources we could change this and it may not be a bad idea to be consistent with our opioid and opiate articles. Sizeofint (talk) 16:52, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

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Fentanyl

It's been four or so years now since we started hearing about an increase of overdoses due to distributors mixing Fentanyl in with heroin. It has been described the last couple of years as an "epidemic" and police officers are now being trained in safe handling of heroin, since even inhaling fentanyl powder in the air ccan cause an overdose (although some of the reporting is a bit....overenthusiastic, makes it sound as if it's VX gas and even looking at a random packet of heroin can kill you...obviously MOST heroin is pretfy safe, even when mixed with fentanyl, or ALL users would be dead by now...)). I came here because I as curious what wiki had to say about it all. And I find exactly nothing. Nothing at all? Five years later? It's even mentioned in one of the articles in the references, but not in the article itself? (And now there's carfentanyl, which is supposedly 100x more potent than fentanyl is (intended for use on elephants, etc), and is being made in labs in China and smuggled into the US....) AnnaGoFast (talk) 04:07, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Unclear/Unsources possibly Unnecessary/Wrong part of article

Hello, I am not very involved in editing Wikipedia articles but I have spent my entire career working in harm reduction primarily with heroin users, so this article is particularly interesting to me.

"It can also be smoked off aluminium foil, which is heated underneath by a flame and the resulting smoke is inhaled through a tube of rolled up foil, This method is also known as "chasing the dragon" (whereas smoking methamphetamine is known as "chasing the white dragon")."

While it is common knowledge that smoking a substance over foil is called "chasing the dragon" I have heard this applies to ANY substance. I have never heard the term "chasing the white dragon". I know my personal knowledge is not important so I pose the following questions:

This method is also (in addition to?) known as "chasing the dragon" (according to who? Where is it known as this? When was it known as this? Is it just the method or the method plus the substance?) (whereas smoking methamphetamine is known as "chasing the white dragon" (Again according to who? Where? When?)) -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:647:401:3ED4:6033:655C:1C4E:B5CA (talk) 02:48, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

I wasn't bold enough to remove it, so I added a 'Citation needed' tag. If no-one finds a source for the claim, go ahead and delete it. BytEfLUSh | Talk! 04:35, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Source of the article : Wikipedia